Stabilized Chlorine Dioxide - Powered by XMB 1.9.11
Stabilized Chlorine Dioxide - Powered by XMB 1.9.11
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posted on 28-6- at 06:56 Stabilized Chlorine Dioxide
The other day, I purchased a newly released mouthwash to try if it does work on halitosis. I took a look at the ingredients and it said "Stabilized Chlorine Dioxide". Now, I knew that ClO2 is supposed to be a gas, so I did some research (thanks, Google), and from what I've read thus far, it's supposedly a buffered chlorite solution that gradually releases its intended cargo. It's apparently a pretty darn good bactericide and viricide, and that its oxidizing ability helps curb the sulfur compounds that are usually halitosis culprits.
Now I want to ask everyone else: do you have any experience with this stuff, and could it be possible that we can (ab)use this substance in the name of Mad Science?
sparky (^_^)
P.S. So far, so good, if I am to believe yesterday's date.
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posted on 28-6- at 11:48
Hm, it can't possibly be too strong of a solution.
I don't know specifically how they'd stabilize it. ClO2 does seem like it would decompose over time, as OCl-.
Oh, and how well does it work?
Tim
[Edited on 6-28- by 12AX7]
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sparkgap
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posted on 29-6- at 02:48
Well, from what I've read thus far, it's not really ClO2 that is in the mouthwash per se; rather, the chlorite ions present in the mouthwash are supposed to decompose into chlorine dioxide while you are swishing it in your mouth. Well, at least that's how I understand the product brochures I've read. The buffering is to retard decomposition, I would presume.
I do believe that this explanation of theirs is a wee bit simplified, so maybe someone more knowledgeable might want to illuminate?
sparky (~_~)
P.S. My original question remains unanswered. Oh, and like I said Tim, the mouthwash worked well. That I would presume from the fact that my date just couldn't stop and let go.
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posted on 29-6- at 03:33
Quote:Originally posted by sparkgap
Oh, and like I said Tim, the mouthwash worked well. That I would presume from the fact that my date just couldn't stop and let go.
I see.
Think you can find a patent on that stuff? That'd tell I bet.
Tim
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kyanite
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posted on 29-6- at 18:05
I was in Wall-Mart today, (trip to beach tomorow ), when I saw this bottle of water sanitizer. Chlorine Dioxide 2% and 98% inert material(water...)
The bottle was tiny, I'd say abot 10-15 mL... I figue that means that you don't need much to sanitize.. mouthwash would probably have less than this...
PS, When I wake up in the morning, my breath stinks, even though I brush thoroughly the night before... Do I have halitosis
Hey, where can I get some of that mouthwash? 12AX7
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posted on 29-6- at 18:40
Should probably floss, and brush your tongue.
I can't floss since I've got braces... stinks!
Tim
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sparkgap
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posted on 30-6- at 04:40
"...When I wake up in the morning, my breath stinks, even though I brush thoroughly the night before... Do I have halitosis..."
Morning breath, as it is commonly called, is due to the fact that saliva isn't moving that much in your mouth when you're sleeping; that allows the sulfur bacteria in your mouth to start pumping away their foul wastes. I don't think that constitutes halitosis... (I still wonder up to this point how Prince Charming was able to kiss Sleeping Beauty... )
sparky (~_~)
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posted on 30-6- at 10:20 Misconceiving advertising
Sparkgap, try and figure out how Casanova did it, he ate garlic like his life depended on it. He literally swum in that stuff, I too by the way, and still do. Willy agrees with my garlic abuse.
It can at times, be quit misconceiving how they present a product. Chlorox (brandname for Sodium hypochlorite solution) has a strength classified as grams of active chlorine per liter. Hydrogen peroxide should be grams of active Oxygen per liter. They are allway talking about Detergent as being highly, super or ultra concentrated. I can thus imagine that a product manufacturer would rather sell a product as having a higher concentration than that of a competing manufacturer. One way to do this is to medel around with the precentages. So now, ClO <----> Cl2 (1) as 48 <----> 64 or in other words you have gaind 33.3 % concentration with the same starting product, using %Cl2 instead of %NaClO. The same example for H2O2 would be O2 <----> 2 H2O2 as 32 <----> 68 so you have now gaind 112.5 % concentration with the same starting product, using %H2O2 instead of %O2.
I am not saying that ClO2 is actually NaClO2 (Sodium chlorite), but it could be. In this case you should be talking about active O2. So then O2 <----> ClO2 as 32 <----> 64 in other words you would have gaind 100 % based on the starting product Sodium chlorite. So using ClO2 makes this example sound more concentrated. An acid solution of NaClO2 indeed would generate ClO2 gas.
1.- In reality the NaClO has a different equasion: 2 NaOH + Cl2 <----> NaCl + NaClO + H2O
CONCLUSION:
I think your "stabilised" ClO2 is just NaClO2, or an acid solution of the same.
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[Edited on 1-7- by Lambda] Lambda
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posted on 30-6- at 13:12 Ripped off by a 10-15 ml mouthwash bottle !
The following is a typical formula for bleaching polyester-cotton blend fabrics: 2 g/1 NaClO2, 2 ml/1 formic acid (85%) to adjust pH to 3, 1 g/l NaNO3.
Tim, it may look like your patent theory has gone down the drain. These mouthwash guy's may just be a bunch of common crooks. I wonder what this 10-15 ml rip off bottle costs ?. Is it an American product ?,.... it couldn't possibly be European !.
[Edited on 30-6- by Lambda] Lambda
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posted on 30-6- at 21:33
I may not speak badly of those who thought up this mouthwash water, for they have made a discovery in it's own right. Regardless of what this miracle water was used for in the first place. The full potential of black gunpowder was not realised, untill it's darker side became apparent. This in it's own right may be called a discovery.
Interesting about ClO2 is that the chlorine and the oxygen, both work as disinfectants or oxydising elements. NaClO2 would work as an oxygen oxydiser.
Interesting to know would be if this mouthwash has a chlorine, and maybe allso acidic odore to it. If not, then I think sparkgap is right.
Quote sparkgap 29-6- at 11:48 AM:
Well, from what I've read thus far, it's not really ClO2 that is in the mouthwash per se; rather, the chlorite ions present in the mouthwash are supposed to decompose into chlorine dioxide while you are swishing it in your mouth. Well, at least that's how I understand the product brochures I've read. The buffering is to retard decomposition, I would presume.
[Edited on 1-7- by Lambda] Archimede
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posted on 1-7- at 14:16
About getting ripped off... my wife sent me to buy swim-ear drops.
I paid $6.5 for a 29mL bottle.
this is whats in it:
Isopropyl alchool, 95%
Inactive ingredient:
Anhydrous glycerin 5%.
For $6.5 you can make 1 gallon of something similar to that.
[Edited on 1-7- by Archimede] Lambda
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posted on 1-7- at 14:55 Sciencemadness products.
Archimede, we should bumb the market with Sciencemadness products and get forum sponsorship in this way. The money is out there, all we have to do is to grab it by means of a few good products. What about a shampo for balled men ?.
[Edited on 2-7- by Lambda] 12AX7
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posted on 1-7- at 15:32
I should sell homeopathy products. Tap water with a dash of alum and brown food coloring, sell it for $30 an ounce!
Tim
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Lambda
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posted on 1-7- at 16:21
Sell it as hairgrow lotion or penis enlargement ointment. You will be surprised how many orders you will get, but don't use the Sciencemadness logo on your product !. zoomer
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posted on 1-7- at 20:39 Dumb question about NaClO2
I've been googling and guessing for a while, but probably not coming close to the actual answer. Can someone tell me: if NaClO2 is such an effective sanitizer, why it isn't used to chlorinate swimming pools?
(Be kind )
Z sparkgap
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posted on 1-7- at 22:07
I do find it strange that there is no mention of concentrations of any sort on the label...
Maybe I should be doing a redox titration just to make sure...
But it does work!
sparky (^_^)
P.S. There is the slight hint of the "swimming pool" odor most of us have come to know and love...
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posted on 2-7- at 05:38
zoomer: Price. Chlorites aren't nearly as cheap as hypochlorites. zoomer
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posted on 2-7- at 06:57
Duh. [sheepish grin] That's why I shouldn't surf after bedtime. Checking around, it's twice the price of sodium dichloroisocyanurate, which is what most people use.
Thanks!
Z
[Edited on 2-7- by zoomer] hodges
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posted on 2-7- at 11:59 Speaking of Products
.... How about underarm deodorant? I'm getting a bit irked at paying several dollars for a few ounces of roll-on that lasts just a few weeks. The bottle says "Active ingredient Aluminum Chlorohydrate 18%". Wouldn't that just be AlCl3 in water? Should be able to crank out a gallon of it for the price of a bottle of deodorant if so. 12AX7
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posted on 2-7- at 14:24
AlCl3.H2O *was* the original deoderant. Oh what fun it must've been to introduce such a personal product in the Victorian era.
Tim
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Also speaking of products...
... theres a product called Stingose on the market down here, a treatment for mosquito stings, and the active ingredient is aluminium sulfate. I'm not sure on the concentration (if I find the bottle I'll double-check), but it was very dilute IIRC, probably a few grams per bottle of fluid (in a spray dispenser).
I agree with the idea of a SM range of budget products, think of the savings!
\"It is dangerous to be right, when your government is wrong.\" - Voltaire 12AX7
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posted on 4-7- at 04:45
Think of the "household" cleaners we could brew, too. CS2 or CCl4 cleaner, anyone? HCl for uber-CLR?
Tim (hey, I clean containers of powdery residues (Cu(OH)2 f.ex.) that way! )
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I believe the EPA will either kick the shit out of you or sue your pants off if you start marketing carbon tet or disulfide for consumer use... oh wait, the government has other concerns at the moment Maybe we can generate revenue for SMDB!!!
sparky (~_~)
P.S. C'mon, we're veering way out here... hasn't anyone else seen stabilized chlorine dioxide?
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posted on 4-7- at 09:47
What are the appropriate concentrations of Chlorine Dioxide for ...
Hello All,
My facility recently switched to Chlorine Dioxide from Sodium Hypochlorite and there was some confusion in regards to the appropriate concentrations for sanitizing. Our chemical distributor and I set our automated mixing unit up for potable water, which is regulated at 2-5 PPM, which did not fly with our QA Supervisor. Some miscommunication occurred in regards to the concentrations for our pasteurizers compared to our sanitize water drop hoses but the real issue was that this wasn't noticed until after we had installed the pump and began using chlorine dioxide!
From my understanding, potable water and 'sanitizing' water are regulated at different PPM's (2-5 PPM for potable/50-200 PPM for sanitizing).
Now, chlorine dioxide is supposedly much more efficient and powerful in terms of killing microbial organisms and requires a much lower PPM, but our QA Supervisor still has the sodium hypochlorite levels in mind of 150-200PPM. My fear is, with one day running our sanitize water at 2-5 PPM, are we running a risk of contamination within our product?
We've conducted some microbial swabs and sent them to labs for testing, but if someone has experience with chlorine dioxide, can you please help inform me? I'd really appreciate the peace of mind knowing what to expect.
Thank you!
-Gus
Hi, Gus. Petty.
Instead of the microbial swab, I would be more interested in knowing what is the residual chlorine after I applied the same values.
For potable water, the recommendation by WHO is 0.2-0.5mg/L, residual chlorine. The country where you manufacture at may have different legislation that you want to check and comply with. Even if you apply the 2-5ppm and the water has high organic load and you end up with 0 ppm residual chlorine in your point of use (or test assuming you test is the farthest point), it will not be effective as disinfectant. In addition, I would be asking my chemical provider if there are any factors that will further impact its effectivity such as if you are using it in the correct pH, correct temperature as it may breakdown in water immediately that may lessen its effectiveness, and contact time.
As for sanitizing equipment, industry somehow uses between 50-200 ppm depending on its application. This is preferred due to in some countries, it is been regulated that it will minimize the use of rinsing if you use that concentration.
From literature, ClO2 breaks down into chlorine (and oxygen) 7-10% that hypochlorite, with that being said, 200ppm hypochlorite may increase further your chlorine disinfection. It would be better to follow supplier recommendation but give the proper context. 2-5ppm may be too low. Other factor as chlorine dioxide is usually generated as gas and may be lost under pressure or agitation and may impact higher chance of corrosion. Thus it would always be better to have help from supplier supported by studies and literature.
All the best.
Are you receiving it as sodium chlorite?
this article may help and perhaps the QA supervisor is thinking they operate in the same way and they do not
https://www.birkocor...ide-its-a-gas /
An issue that keeps coming up for chlorine dioxide is the safe amount to be in the air.......which is 0.1ppm, just to keep in mind
Whether you are using sodium hypochlorite or chlorine dioxide, there should be enough time left post sanitizing for the surface to drain and dry......no product should every touch ANY wet sanitizer
Essentially, allowed to drain and dry the surfaces should have negligible chemical residue (if using the correct dosage to begin with)
@ Thank you for the information. I will do some residual testing once we get the system back up and running. With all the confusion, we've shut down the pump and are sanitizing everything with premixed sprayers at 180 PPM. The pump that we had originally ordered, under the premise that our target was the potable water recommendation of 2-5 PPM, had a maximum capacity of 20 PPM. I was able to increase the output by magnifying the GPM sensor reading by 2.5X and increasing the Activator to Product ratio but this turned our water a green hue with complaints of a strong odor from employees. Ultimately, I should have done more homework about the chemical.
@Scampi We are indeed receiving it as sodium chlorite and activating it with a 35% phosphoric acid. We mix the two chemicals by hand to get the correct PPM for our pasteurizers but our lab techs are also complaining of an incredibly strong smell. My manager and I had found that article the day that this all happened but only briefly scanned it for information. I appreciate the help though.
After all this information, I do have another question. When I increased the activator to product ratio, our water turned green and emitted a very strong smell. Also, when mixing the two chemicals by hand, the smell can be overwhelming. The question I have is; does increasing the activator contribute to the emission of gas, and if so, can I use a lower quantity of the activator and allow a longer mixing time to achieve the same PPM with fewer gas emissions?
Thank you again for the information.
Can i ask why you think this is the best solution for you? Or why you switched
If it is for better microbial load reduction, PAA is much easier to use (pre mixed) and once it oxides your left with O2 and H20
You were not supplied with a dosatron to mix these for you?
This ratio is to make water suitable for drinking, which I know is not the same but may help with the ratio's
Chlorine Dioxide via Sodium Chlorite and Phosphoric Acid SolutionsAquaMira uses a stabilized 2 part liquid system for chlorine dioxide. Part A contains a 2% sodium chlorite solution and Part B contains 5% phosphoric acid solution. Seven drops of each are mixed and added to a quart (liter) of water. You will need wait several minutes for the two components to react prior to adding it to your water.
Hi Gus,
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I have now worked at 2 facilities who have decided to add Chlorine Dioxide to the sanitation procedures.
It was a few years ago at the first facility and I left before it was resolved - so the details below are a bit general.
We were also mandated to make this change and moved ahead without taking the time to investigate properly.
We were also attempting to generate the chlorine dioxide by mixing 2 components and then diluted it automatically at point of use for both product washing & equipment sanitation purposes.
In both instances we were using <5 ppm ClO2.
We were required to have the generator located in a well ventilated area separated from the production area - no one was directly involved in the process.
This sanitation team used wash down hoses with 5 ppm of ClO2 - they did not like the change due to the strong odour and resulting headaches and sore throats.
As already stated above by @Scampi, the level in the air is regulated in Canada to 0.1 ppm max.
In the end - it was shut down by our Worker's Compensation Agency (EH&S) department as the ClO2 gas readily dissipates from the water and contaminated the air.
The 2nd facility installed a different system - generating concentrated ClO2 in a closed drum using a 'tea bag' of powdered sodium chlorite and citric acid which is then diluted using a dosatron - again at 5 ppm for both produce washing and sanitation purposes.
We took care to use only gentle water sprays dedicated to the sanitation rinse (produce and equipment) and did not have ClO2 in all the hoses used in the facility for cleaning/sanitation.
This installation has been accepted by the employees and considered successful as supported by the environmental monitoring and product micro data.
I am not familiar with CIP systems used in dairies - but the point of this reply - if your employees are complaining about an overwhelming odour; IMO - there is a problem and a legitimate concern.
I have also struggled trying to secure adequate research to support the concentration of ClO2 suggested by the supplier - hoping you and the QA Supervisor can come to a resolution on what will work for your employees and allow you to improve your food safety.
@Abby7 That's my concern. If we still have the same issues with this new pump, we may have to cancel the entire project as well.
The new pump/mixing unit we are trying pulls the chemical in with the water flow and mixes the two components inside a predetermined level of water. I've found that when mixing within water, it greatly reduces the order and respiratory issues we were having. The water sits on top and blocks any gas emissions.
That being said, going up to as high as 200 PPM I'm worried there isn't a real solution to the problem. We are planning on having that high of PPM travel through our water system and ultimately be applied through water hoses. I'm not entirely positive as to what our PSI is through our water system, but any agitation of solution seems to cause the same gas problems. Spraying the water out of a nozzle will surely cause some gas release.
If we can conduct some in house testing and prove that a lower PPM will be effective, I can lower it. Without that verification however, we will have to maintain a 150-200 PPM range.
Today will be the day we hook up the new pump and see what will happen. I'll update this post once we've had time to experience how this new system will work.
Thank you,
-Gus
Quick update:
We are considering going to a much larger system called a Titan 3. it an supposedly handle very high PPM counts while being capable of adjusting the free chlorine dioxide in the air.
One of my main concerns had been the safety and health of employees. The free chlorine is regulated at very low levels for the United States and I'm interested in seeing how this new equipment will be able to manipulate the free chlorine levels. It's an interesting concept.
This isn't a 'for sure' thing, but we've decided that we had insufficient information from the beginning. Now we are gathering all the information we can to be sure that we are well prepared.
If anyone has addition information or experience working with chlorine dioxide or the delivery systems in to water supplies, would you be willing to share? The company we are working with for this new system is called Bio-Cide.
Thank you all,
-Gus
If you want to learn more, please visit our website Stabilised Chlorine Dioxide.